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Old 11-05-2009, 06:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Future for the LNER Peppercorn Class A1 60163 Tornado?

The LNER Peppercorn Class A1 60163 Tornado steam locomotive seems to have dropped from the news (at least here in the USA).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60163_Tornado

What is the future for the 60163 Tornado and are there any plans for making any additional steam locomotives?

Was it just an attempt to recreate an updated historical steam locomotive or is/was it intended to reintroduce steam locomotives into daily operations?

Thanks,

Jerry
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default RE: Future for the LNER Peppercorn Class A1 60163 Tornado?

Hi Jerry,

Tornado is still very active, although I guess she may have a quiet time after Christmas. I expect he diary is full from March onwards next year. She visited my Heritage line six times during the summer by the way.

http://www.a1steam.com

This link has her current activities listed.


I am sure there are some rebuilds of locos being done over here. I recall that I read about one or two being created out of the Barry scrapyard locos which have not yet been restored. I know that the West Somerset Railway, about 80 miles from here, converted ex- Great Western Railway 2-6-2T loco No. 5193 into a 2-6-0 (with tender) No. 9351. - notice the number interplay.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default RE: Future for the LNER Peppercorn Class A1 60163 Tornado?

Posted By Great Western on 05 Nov 2009 08:13 AM
Hi Jerry,

Tornado is still very active, although I guess she may have a quiet time after Christmas. I expect he diary is full from March onwards next year. She visited my Heritage line six times during the summer by the way.

http://www.a1steam.com/

This link has her current activities listed.


I am sure there are some rebuilds of locos being done over here. I recall that I read about one or two being created out of the Barry scrapyard locos which have not yet been restored. I know that the West Somerset Railway, about 80 miles from here, converted ex- Great Western Railway 2-6-2T loco No. 5193 into a 2-6-0 (with tender) No. 9351. - notice the number interplay.



Hi Alan,

Thank you for the link and the information. I had lost it.

This may be the final straw and get me to make another trip to England - perhaps next summer. My wife will need to go soon to be with her cousin who is going into hospital there and friends have been trying to talk me into returning (its been 15 years or so).

Between the military museums and now my interest in steam railways it is getting harder to resist the desire to return. Now if they would only bring back the cheap air fares.

Regards,

Jerry
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default RE: Future for the LNER Peppercorn Class A1 60163 Tornado?

Hi Jerry,


Tornado is the first of a series of 'new build' locomotives as opposed to 'rebuilt' (from previously (sold for) scrap) locomotives. New build I believe have different regulations to rebuilds as would be expected as the basic chassis, though stringently inspected (10 year limits normally for a full inspection) are still old. The Tornado trust hopes to have a higher speed limit tfor its locomotive than the rebuilds: 95 mph is suggested, the rebuilds speed limit is 75mph for main line use. Preserved railways are different - they have much lower speed limits.


New builds take a long time and are very expensive, heavy engineering is never cheap.
One of the new builds is of a London Midland & Scottish Railway Patriot class 4 6 0 which will, when finished, be a ‘war remembrance’ loco, so far they have the frames cut and are being assembled. The association doing this have a web site at the following location http://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/overview.html

Another is a passenger tank engine, I do not profess to know all though I am sure there are others in the pipeline.


Steam for (normal ) main line use NO, it can not fit into the present speeds that either electric or diesel haulage can produce. It is also becoming apparent that the paths for the steam specials are getting harder to find – there is not enough available, not helped by large sections on some line which produce a limit on the number of paths available; the railways are separated into track & signals/passenger franchise & freight franchises + enthusiasts/steam train/dining specials. Things get tight!


Equally steam engines are filthy things made more so by the new regulations that require a full sheet over the gap between loco cab & tender. That is needed to keep high voltage electric power (25 kilovolt) away from the loco crew.


The loco is as you say an updated steam loco but performs just like the others of its class that were tested, and are now scrapped – it is fast, and performs well. Specially trained crews are needed, and there are not a lot of those – they seem to do the at times difficult, and hard job for the pleasure of doing it, but they are paid I am sure.


More locos are being suggested – the really difficult bit is the raising of the large amounts of money first to build them: they are built mostly with cash raised by volunteers. Tornado has a large loan which is being re-paid partly with fees from the trains that it runs.
Don’t forget we have no large steam era locomotive works left, though there are small ones that do a very good job indeed! Needless to say they are busy.
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default RE: Future for the LNER Peppercorn Class A1 60163 Tornado?

is/was it intended to reintroduce steam locomotives into daily operations?
While the other UK guys gave you the loco info, the issue of 'daily operations' can be clarified.

No, they certainly aren't going to be used on a regular basis on the Uk network, owned by "Network Rail". However, there are many extensive private "restored" railway lines, equivalent to a US 'short line' that were abandoned in the 1960s (like the steam engines) and since restored to use. Some are double tracked and suitable for fast running, though they don't for safety reasons.

My favorite, the North York Moors Railway (http://www.nymr.co.uk/) is 18 miles long and runs jam-packed 8+ coach trains all summer to an extensive schedule, venturing down Network Rail to a local seaside terminus.

The nearest equivalent in the US is the old Eirie-Lackawanna mainline out of Scranton. Steamtown has a couple of working steam engines, and they run regular excursions down the line. If/when they rebuild the Lackawanna Cutoff (which NJ Transit wants to do for commuters,) they will be able to run all the way into NYC - or Hoboken, as steam isn't allowed in the tunnels under the Hudson.
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default RE: Future for the LNER Peppercorn Class A1 60163 Tornado?

Hi Peter and Pete,

Thank you for the additional information.

Jerry
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default RE: Future for the LNER Peppercorn Class A1 60163 Tornado?

Hi Jerry, In the new issue of the magazine 'Steam Railway' they are talking about 'new build locomotives in the UK'

From that article, and in standard gauge, there are 7 locomotives under construction - that is their frames have been cut.

To finish those it is estimated that a sum of £10 million pounds (not allowing for inflation) will be needed.
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default RE: Future for the LNER Peppercorn Class A1 60163 Tornado?

Posted By peter bunce on 16 Nov 2009 02:28 PM

Hi Jerry, In the new issue of the magazine 'Steam Railway' they are talking about 'new build locomotives in the UK'

From that article, and in standard gauge, there are 7 locomotives under construction - that is their frames have been cut.

To finish those it is estimated that a sum of £10 million pounds (not allowing for inflation) will be needed.




Hi Peter,

It sounds like the future of steam locomotives in the UK is looking bright.

Thanks for the update,

Jerry
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