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Old 04-17-2011, 11:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default First Custom Build, GSW Dining Carriage #3

Before I begin, I want to make two things clear.
  1. I have a tendency to be a project junkie, always starting something new, seldom do they see completion. In the last twenty years there have been less than ten finished products; with over half of them being built in the last year I'm trusting I have just tapped into a well-spring of creative mojo. So I am asking men to step up and hold me accountable to this build. I encourage your support, suggestions and requests for progress. Please don't be shy in checking up on my work..
  2. This project was first planted in my head about five years ago while researching a consist for my Hornby OO Live Steam Mallard. Pete Thornton sent me his copy of Ian Allan's Historic Carriage Drawings in 4mm Scale. Inside was a wealth of information on the LNER and her Gresley Teaks. During my study I stumbled across a one-off dining carriage, one look was all it took.
So to reiterate:
  1. Help me stay motivated
  2. Pete Started It!
The car was build under R.H. Whitelegg in 1921. I emailed back and forth with Pete, he gave me leads for info on UK railroads. To make a long story short, all I had is this one picture of the car, a few floor plans of similar dining carriages from that period and a nagging voice in my head saying, "Wouldn't that be spectacular in 1:32!"

Jump forward a few years, Pete finally got his books returned. It is Cabin Fever '09, Pete and I finally me face to face. During the day he asked about the carriage and if I ever worked on it. Since I made a profit in the auction I decided maybe it was time to make some "Progress" towards the car. Once again Pete armed me with a few links and names, not to mention assisting me by making a 1:32 copy of the car I was able to print and glue together for inspiration. I sent an email to David Leech who shared much of his experience and became my source for bogies, torpedo roof vents, buffers, link hooks and a sample. No I was invested.

On the drive back to the Cape I realized if I was EVER going to build something like this, I'd need a shop.

Brings us to the present, the shop was finished this week and it was time to break out the GSW #3 and do some work. Here is drawing that started it all:


The vents above the windows are sandwiched between stained glass windows, this carriage must have been elegant.

David suggested I start by building a test section, perhaps the eight inches of model that includes the buffers, get an idea what obstacles need to be overcome along the way. So I printed two pages, glued them to poster board, then took my x-acto blade and began cutting out all the pieces that weren't trim, then glued the second piece on top of the first, making the trim three dimensional.



I also saw the need to start a full size master drawing to get measurements from if I were to continue. This took a huge amount of math. My initial list had over ten variables to find, which I was later to reduce to almost half that. I'm sure glad I paid attention in Algebra. My gf who believes math with letters isn't math said the paper looked like the chalk board from the movie Good Will Hunting. I was proud of that. I sent a copy of my work to Pete who was able to help me find the numbers I was looking for. From there I started the master drawing. Here is a peek at some of the work so far. The pencil work to date:



I will post more as work gets completed.
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:39 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default RE: First Custom Build, GSW Dining Carriage #3

Impressive! Looking good so far!
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default RE: First Custom Build, GSW Dining Carriage #3

What I don't have is a book with a suitable Glasgow & South Western Railway locomotive to pull it!

I guess one could always say it was brought over to the U.S. by someone - it will look good behind an S-12.
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Old 04-18-2011, 07:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default RE: First Custom Build, GSW Dining Carriage #3

Pete - When the carriage is finished I see it running with Doug's Aster Castle and his rake. The S-14 is strictly freight. Since the car body looks USish I might make a second frame with US trucks and knuckle couplers. Would look great mxed in with three other heavyweights behing the upcoming Acc M6.

I bought the GIMRA book "Coaching Stock". I just pulled it out and there is a ton of good stuff in here. After a quick 20 minute skim this project seems a bit less daunting.
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default RE: First Custom Build, GSW Dining Carriage #3

Kent,
I am glad to see that the project is 'coming along' nicely.
Keep posting those photos.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default RE: First Custom Build, GSW Dining Carriage #3

Very nice drawings.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default RE: First Custom Build, GSW Dining Carriage #3

I see it running with Doug's Aster Castle and his rake
Aaggh - Blasphemy! The only thing that can be pulled by a Castle is Chocolate and Cream GWR stock !!

Well, actually, as you know I'm an LNER fan (besides an EBT fan) so go ahead - make them GWR guys cringe!
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default RE: First Custom Build, GSW Dining Carriage #3

I have been surfing the web and sending emails for the past few days. Today I was rewarded with the follwing email:

Hi Kent

I am Stuart Rankin, journal editor and archivist of the G&SWR Association, based in Paisley, Scotland near Glasgow. Our webmaster just forwarded your interesting e-mail to me. The drawing you sent is of one full side plus scrap view of the middle part of the other side where it differs. By judicious copy and paste I have concocted the second side in full. From 1:76 scale you will be able to enlarge up to 1:32 with modern technology. I also have photographs of the exterior and even one or two of the interior showing the seating style - this would be essential for a 1:32 model. This will be a magnificent coach for you to build. I also have the Railway Magazine official description when it was built in 1921, and other bits and pieces. It will take me a little time to gather all together; this is just to get in touch with you. I'll decide later if it's practicable to send you copies of everything I have by e-mail, or if it may need a CD, but hopefully e-mail will do OK (maybe in batches) and not involve any direct costs.

It went though five liveries; G&SWR crimson lake; LMS early fully lined crimson lake; LMS simplified crimson lake; early BR carmine & cream, up to 1958 when it was virtually out of traffic; and finally (mainly in store) BR standard lined maroon. It was scrapped in 1960. Have you any idea which period you would like to run it? LMS is a problem for photos - I don't know any! By BR days railway carriage specialists were becoming more dligent in recording interesting vehicles and so most of what we have comes from the 1950s. Internally it was largely unaltered so interior views of the 1950s are valid for any period, but the fancy glass ornamentation was swapped for plain glass, probably by the LMS authorities, not caring for pre-grouping ostentation. If you prefer crimson but the condition it ran most of its life i.e. with 6 wheel bogies, the final 2-3 years are possible and I have a colour photo of it in this condition. Basically it was finally displaced by new BR Standard restaurand and buffet cars, but was still running on Glasgow-Aberdeen expresses c1957. I can explain this deduction later. From the operating aspect in spent the LMS era on the Highland Far North lines. So the modeller has a fair choice on what sort of stock to run it with. I am keen on 'modeller's licence' and unusual routes are always of interest.

In 1926 its four wheel bogies were changed to Caledonian 'Grampian' 6 wheel bogies, as per the drawing also out of 'HISTORIC CARRIAGE DRAWINGS'. The original springing was too soft so the coach probably rolled more than it should, not clever on a dining carriage!

If you were interested in writing a future article on your model, I would be interested for the Sou'West Journal; we are mainly a historical society rather than modelling, but much of what we do provides info for modellers whilsy hopefully being of interest to non-modellers - try and please as many as possible.

Kind regards

Stuart



Photos of the interior are going to be priceless!!
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default RE: First Custom Build, GSW Dining Carriage #3

Information is flowing in

Restaurant Car No. 3, again a composite 1st/3rd with central kitchen, was the most opulent carriage built by the G&SWR and was designed by Robert Whitelegg, who had been appointed on the death of Peter Drummond in June 1918. Whitelegg has been described as an ‘artist-engineer’, and whatever his shortcomings in other aspects, his artistry was unsurpassed in this unique coach designed by him. A first design attempt was rejected by the G&SWR Board in 1919, with the drawing marked ‘Cancelled’; but, undeterred, within a short period new drawings for an improved design began to appear in the Kilmarnock Works drawing office register. Board approval for what Whitelegg preferred to call a ‘Restaurant Car’, and was thus lettered, was on xxxxxxxxx at an estimated cost of £ .

The restaurant car was built at Kilmarnock Works and went on to the Carlisle/Glasgow turns, in 1922, although it is not certain if these were the same as operated by Manson’s Dining Carriage No. 1, which was still in traffic. When the board report was submitted for approval, the car was stated to be intended for the Turnberry run. then operated by No. 2. Subterfuge using the Directors’ possible sympathy towards Turnberry Hotel and the associated Light Railway may have been used to justify it, or there may just have been a change of mind to move it to the more prestigious main line route; the Board Minutes do not reveal such detail. Another possibility which occurred to the author is that it may have been found to exceed the light railway loading gauge at some point, and could not safely be operated over the Turnberry route, whereas No. 2 was of less extreme length and height dimensions, and already operating on the line.

The Railway Magazine for January 1922 provided a full and enthusiastic description of the interior, which can only be summarised here. The first-class compartment was themed in blue, for the Wilton carpet, morocco leather upholstery on the tip-up chairs of polished mahogany, the silk window blinds and draped curtains. Third class was green, with linoleum laid on felt instead of carpet, and Austrian oak for the chairs’ construction, but otherwise was of similar luxury to the first class. Fittings in both compartments were given an oxidised silver finish. Leaded cathedral stained glass was used on the vestibule recessed doors and internal roof domes. The kitchen was intended for cooking more than just breakfasts and teas as in cars Nos. 1 and 2, and was fitted with a large cooker with ovens, gas rings, grills, hot-plate rack over the cooker; and, ancillary for cooking needs, a 100 gallon water tank was carried in the roof space. There was a shallow clerestory on the roof, which brought the coach up to the maximum height allowed by the G&SWR loading gauge, 12ft. 11in., and it contained ventilators which would have avoided the problem of over-heating in the kitchen as experienced with car No. 2 in 1919 - 1920. The weight of No. 3 was 40 tons.

The LMS renumbered No. 3 as 18588 and its career on the G&SW Section does not appear to have been any longer than its fellow dining carriages, in the face of several Pullman cars being drafted on to the G&SW section. In May 1926 it was fitted with six-wheel bogies from ex-CR ‘Grampian’ stock to cure soft riding experienced with its G&SWR four-wheeled bogies of 10ft. 6in. wheelbase. It was exiled to the Highland section by 1927 as one of a new pool of several catering vehicles sent to relieve the pangs of hunger on long northern journeys, where dining cars would work from Inverness to either The Mound, junction for Dornoch, or further north to Helmsdale, and Inverness to Achnasheen on the Kyle of Lochalsh line. This transfer for the Whitelegg car may have taken place after being re-bogied, or even before. The second (1932) LMS number was 299, finally British Railways SC299M. It was still sometimes in front-line use in 1956 on the Glasgow-Aberdeen ‘Bon-Accord Express, photographed travelling behind a BR Caprotti-gear ‘Standard Class 5’, and it achieved a repaint in the all-crimson BR livery, circa 1957-58, but it met its end in the company of No. 2 at a scrap yard at Gartsherrie, near Coatbridge, in June 1960.

Much effort and expense was lavished on this restaurant car, as luxurious and elegant as any of its time, and it was the only product of Whitelegg which outlived its designer, as he had died in 1957 at the age of 85, after an unusual career. Both railway companies which he served, the London Tilbury & Southend (LTSR), and the G&SWR, were taken over by larger railways in 1912 and 1923 respectively, and he refused to become a subservient officer, leaving railway service for private engineering practice on both occasions. On the LTSR he had been the protégé and successor of his father, Thomas Whitelegg, and was thus used to high office at an early age, with probably less of the usual ‘rise through the ranks’ to use normal experience as a gradual and useful function of a career. Any shortcomings of experience in this respect showed themselves more in the technicalities of locomotive design, and man-management. With carriages he first and foremost accepted Drummond’s designs, as good contemporary practice, and his restaurant car design was most satisfactory except for the soft running (springing) of the bogies. His obituary by The Stephenson Locomotive Society described him as ‘the last of the artist-engineers’, and truly he put a personal artistic stamp on his G&SWR designs, including a proposed four-wheeled goods brake van of 25 tons designed weight which was never built, but was so stylish with panelling as to appear almost like a passenger carriage.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default RE: First Custom Build, GSW Dining Carriage #3

I was pleasantly surprised today when I received some more information from Stuart regarding this build. I was expecting the country to be shut down for the coming nuptials on Friday. I come to this conclusion only knowing how much royal wedding media blitz has been on our TV with my gf Karen at the remote this past week. What do I care, it's all back ground noise as I hunch over the bench between periods of work and waiting for creative solutions to emerge. So I can imagine how the hype must be over there. Or maybe over-hype is a US thing? What do I know? I'm an old kid who lives for trains.

Today's photos show some of the different liveries through #3's life, followed up with an interior photo. YEAH! *with cherubs playing harps in the background*







The following photo was when she was brand new, notice the 4 wheel bogies which were upgraded early on. What doesn't show here compared to the high res version is all the scrolling and paint details, enough to give you an idea though.



And best of all, the inside!



And to top it all off, I picked up Doug's calipers today. So I guess I have everything I need to get started on the full size drawing. And with that, off I go...
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