Rubber-coated ballast demonstrates improved track resilience - Page 2 - myLargescale.com > Community > Forums


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Old 10-11-2019, 07:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I would think that the fine particles that you leave behind as you drive down the road would be a lot more of a problem than chunks of the stuff just lying there.
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Old 10-11-2019, 08:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Elmassian View Post
I read up a bit, and dust from grinding/sanding the stuff seems to be universally bad.

But, looking at dangerous stuff leaching from the rubber seems to be some brands/processes, while others don't have an issue.

I've read some reports that allude to what Chris says, and others that do not find issues.

So universal damnation does not seem proper at this point, but if you were to sprinkle it on your corn flake would require further investigation.
Greg
"I've read some reports that allude to what Chris says, and others that do not find issues."
Allude? "do not find issues" ? You have got to be kidding.
Do we really need to revisit this category of products and materials that join others that forged the territory;

Lead
Asbestos
Gasoline, Diesel, etc. (hydrocarbons as a class)
DDT
Cigarettes
Who can forget the company CEOs testifying before congress under oath "Cigarettes are not addictive.' a few years later the same CEOs were again their, under oath, and sall testified, "I believe Cigarettes are addictive."
And all the others yet to be discovered, invented and/or identified.

Environmental concerns (perspective on section below)
The section below while it sounds relative benign has to be viewed with considerable skepticism given the number of time in the past the same type characterization has been applied to products and/or materials that turned out to be only at the beginning. early, intereum, etc., of a comprehensive evaluation of the effects either longer term or technology to assess the material as thoroughly as required, as exemplified by lead, asbestos, etc. Our analysis is only as good as our technology, tools, methods, experience and intelligence. Who's doing the research, who are they funded by or affiliated with and what are their conclusions, unfortunately based on past experience is one of the most critical factors in evaluating any "authoritative, accurate or objective" information.
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Tire recycling
Tire recycling, or rubber recycling, is the process of recycling waste tires that are no longer suitable for use on vehicles due to wear or irreparable damage. These tires are a challenging source of waste, due to the large volume produced, the durability of the tires, and the components in the tire that are ecologically problematic.[1]

Because tires are highly durable and non-biodegradable, they can consume valued space in landfills.[1] In 1990, it was estimated that over 1 billion scrap tires were in stockpiles in the United States. As of 2015, only 67 million tires remain in stockpiles.[2] From 1994 to 2010, the European Union increased the amount of tires recycled from 25% of annual discards to nearly 95%, with roughly half of the end-of-life tires used for energy, mostly in cement manufacturing.[3][4]

Newer technology, such as pyrolysis and devulcanization, has made tires suitable targets for recycling despite their bulk and resilience. Aside from use as fuel, the main end use for tires remains ground rubber.[2][5]

In 2017, 13% of U.S. tires removed from their primary use were sold in the used tire market. Of the tires that were scrapped, 43% were burnt as tire-derived fuel, with cement manufacturing the largest user, another 25% were used to make ground rubber, 8% were used in civil engineering projects, 17% were disposed of in landfills and 8% had other uses.[6]

Environmental concerns
Due to their heavy metal and other pollutant content, tires pose a risk for the leaching of toxins into the groundwater when placed in wet soils. Research has shown that very little leaching occurs when shredded tires are used as light fill material; however, limitations have been put on use of this material; each site should be individually assessed determining if this product is appropriate for given conditions.[8]

For both above and below water table applications, the preponderance of evidence shows that TDA (tire derived aggregate, or shredded tires) will not cause primary drinking water standards to be exceeded for metals. Moreover, TDA is unlikely to increase levels of metals with primary drinking water standards above naturally occurring background levels.[28]
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To MLS:
Sorry that's a little long winded and somewhat off topic but Greg's approach hit a hot button needing a bit of hard headed rebuttal.
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Chris, the subject was are the rubber products toxic, right? (not cigarettes, CEO's etc)

so to that point, in the posting you made, here are the salient points, copied directly from your post:

Due to their heavy metal and other pollutant content, tires pose a risk for the leaching of toxins into the groundwater when placed in wet soils. Research has shown that very little leaching occurs when shredded tires are used as light fill material; however, limitations have been put on use of this material; each site should be individually assessed determining if this product is appropriate for given conditions.[8]

For both above and below water table applications, the preponderance of evidence shows that TDA (tire derived aggregate, or shredded tires) will not cause primary drinking water standards to be exceeded for metals. Moreover, TDA is unlikely to increase levels of metals with primary drinking water standards above naturally occurring background levels.

The first quotes says poses a risk, does not go further than that.

The second quote almost reverses it in saying "will not cause drinking water standards to be exceeded"

My research gave me the same kind of thing, some maybe's some yes's and some no's.

While personally I do not like the idea at all of using rubber mulch, and I am as suspicious as you (well almost ) about having this stuff around and on children's playgrounds, what you find is all over the map.


More quotes and references welcome of course. I'll never use the stuff.



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Old 10-12-2019, 07:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Elmassian View Post
Chris, the subject was are the rubber products toxic, right? (not cigarettes, CEO's etc)

so to that point, in the posting you made, here are the salient points, copied directly from your post:

Due to their heavy metal and other pollutant content, tires pose a risk for the leaching of toxins into the groundwater when placed in wet soils. Research has shown that very little leaching occurs when shredded tires are used as light fill material; however, limitations have been put on use of this material;each site should be individually assessed determining if this product is appropriate for given conditions

For both above and below water table applications, the preponderance of evidence shows that TDA (tire derived aggregate, or shredded tires) ill not cause primary drinking water standards to be exceeded for metals. Moreover, TDA is unlikely to increase levels of metals with primary drinking water standards above naturally occurring background levels.

The first quotes says poses a risk, does not go further than that.

The second quote almost reverses it in saying "will not cause drinking water standards to be exceeded"

My research gave me the same kind of thing, some maybe's some yes's and some no's.

While personally I do not like the idea at all of using rubber mulch, and I am as suspicious as you (well almost ) about having this stuff around and on children's playgrounds, what you find is all over the map.

More quotes and references welcome of course. I'll never use the stuff.
Greg
Greg:

The first examples (i.e., lead, etc.) were about long term harmful effects and hindsight. The quote embodied the same equivocation you first posted. In between came the warning of the jeopardy, faults and limitations inherent in any assessment (repeated below.) that precede the quoted text. The CO's? That was an example of, it it sounds too good to be true it probably is. No matter who and where it's said.

Environmental concerns (perspective on section below)
The section below while it sounds relative benign has to be viewed with considerable skepticism given the number of times in the past the same type of characterization has been applied to products and/or materials that turned out to be only at the beginning. early, intereum, etc., of a comprehensive evaluation of the effects either longer term or technology to assess the material as thoroughly as required, as exemplified by lead, asbestos, etc. Our analysis is only as good as our technology, tools, methods, experience and intelligence. Who's doing the research, who are they funded by or affiliated with and what are their conclusions. Unfortunately based on past experience is one of the most critical factors in evaluating any "authoritative, accurate or objective" information.

I hope a second reading of the above might more clearly make my point. I think I may by character and habit have more skepticism than you.

While it seems you may have missed my point or post's flow(?), I think we probably agree neither of us wants to live next to a tire disposal site. As well as have more sensitivity toward those who live next to or be exposed to any hazardous site or substance through no fault of their own. There but by the grace of God...

Last edited by Chris Scott; 10-12-2019 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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On the other side, since asphalt is used in roadways (which I'm sure that the tar substance has plenty of bad stuff in it), they are grinded up old tires and mixing it with asphalt to make "rubberized" paving. Several web sites indicate that it takes between a couple of hundred to a thousand years for synthetic tires to "decompose". Burning is not a good idea. So, mixing it in with something that I don't see civilizations doing away with and making the ride quieter and smoother, seems like a good idea. Now, trying to model it into a G scale railbed....I'll pass.
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