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Old 06-30-2020, 01:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Trains run, pre track layout tour

A sort of guided tour of the layout as it is now. I'm now confident that trains won't spill off the drawbridge and 5 feet to the ground. Grades are steep, but that only makes me have to run more power and maybe helpers. Curves should be made wider too. But all in all, it's going to be a fun layout. Take a look!


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Old 06-30-2020, 07:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The dirt on some of the ridges looks pretty loose. Are you doing anything to compact it and stop erosion? I have used several methods which I can show you if interested.
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think some cribbing is in order. Those grades are plenty steep!


I know you have built your drawbridge, but by placing the hinge pivot above the rail heads, you would not have to have a separate piece of track.


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Old 07-02-2020, 01:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by placitassteam View Post
The dirt on some of the ridges looks pretty loose. Are you doing anything to compact it and stop erosion? I have used several methods which I can show you if interested.

Yes! I would appreciate it




Grades are steep for sure. I don't know if I'll have to make changes yet though. I wanted them because they justify multiple units on short trains. Greg, the cribbing and other earthwork will have to be done like you said. I just don't know where yet, until the summer rains expose the vulnerable locations.
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Old 07-04-2020, 10:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Here are some photos of slopes and cliffs that I have stabilized in various ways. This one shows a train heading down the High Line from the upper loop to the lower on a 3 1/2% grade.

You can see the rocks in the foreground supporting the rail bed. Above the rail bed are textured cinder blocks simulating the cut stone that created the
rail bed shelf with some more rocks above to hold back the rest of the hill. The rail bed is concrete. Behind the train is a series of rails on end with more rails
attached horizontally and inside of the structure is 1/8 inch mesh hardware cloth which holds back the fill in the arroyo.


This a close up of that structure.

I'm sorry the resolution is not better.


On the other side of the hill are cliffs that look like this.



This is how they were formed. First pieces of vertical re-bar were pounded into the ground.






1/2 inch hardware cloth was wired to the outside. Tar-paper was put on the inside and the whole thing filled with dirt.


The outside was then stuccoed with various colors and highlighted with concrete stains.


Another view of the cliffs.



Now I'll show some photos of bridges with different types of abutments. This is a lift bridge with concrete footings. That is the High Line in the back ground.




All of the rocks shown were picked up on my property.


A truss bridge with timbered abutments filled with concrete.


A trestle with rock, concrete and timber abutments. The footings for the bents are 2 X 8 X 16 cinder block pavers buried on edge.


I hope these photos give you some ideas. Keep up the good work.
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Last edited by placitassteam; 07-04-2020 at 10:52 PM. Reason: to make the writing fit in the frame so you don't have to scroll.
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Old 07-05-2020, 12:13 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Get an "Expert" on "Retaining walls" to give you advice. You may have problems with the way you are building them, in the future. You have to reinforce them properly, and interlock the corners, which you haven't done. Those posts in the ground will be of little help in maintain the stability of the walls, as built.
I do wish you good luck, but I'd hate to see you putting so much work into the project, and having disappointments hit you in the future. I post this, with a bit of experience, working with retaining walls constructed from used railroad ties. You can get away with possibly one or two layers, the way you are building, but anything higher is doomed to problems.
When a railroad replaces ties, they are VERY well used, and not always worth the labour, or cost. Also, they can become hosts to Hornets and wasps in all their cracks and holes...BE AWARE. ALSO; be aware that Creosote is not a recommended stuff to play around, and is banned in some areas of North America. Those ties, even as old as they may be, are loaded with the stuff.
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Old 07-05-2020, 03:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Thanks Mr. Steadman "I hope these photos give you some ideas." They have given me some more ideas. I like the 1/2" hardware wire and stucco the best. I'll bet you got the wire from Davis True Value (I used to have a home in Tijeras).



I'm working to get at least one loop together so I can run a train continuously, but it's been slow going with these 100 degree days. I have run a couple of test trains and some pics will be coming.


Mr Mills: "You can get away with possibly one or two layers, the way you are building, but anything higher is doomed to problems." What are the problems to which you refer?
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Old 07-05-2020, 06:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I don't remember where I got the hardware cloth, probably Home Depot. For the stucco base I used a product called FastWall made by El Rey stucco.
It contains fibers that make it quite strong. I expected some cracking but it is 15 years old and no damage. It is actually standing up better
than the stucco on my house!! I just used rubber gloves to smear it on about 1/2 inch thick with my hands. Same with the color coat that way
I could texture it however I wanted. If you are doing 2 sides of a bank I would recommend tying the sides together every 2 or 3 feet with pieces
of re-bar or heavy galvanized wire. I used wire and it has held up well.

I tend to agree with Fred although a neighbor of mine has a 6 foot retaining wall made of ties that are still sound after at least 35 years that I know of.
I don't know where you live now but if you are still in the desert you shouldn't have problem with much rot. However, I would recommend tying a wire
around each vertical post and back into the hill to a 'Dead Man', inch and a half PVC pipe a foot long should do.

Keep CHUGGING.
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Old 07-06-2020, 07:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I had to get two bridges built and installed so trains can exit the shop and enter the mainline. The first is a high steel deck girder (see 1st and 2nd attachments).


The second is a deck girder (see 3rd attachment).


Here's the very first train to run across the bridge. The safety platforms that hang out the side of the bridge were too close and got wacked by the snowplow of the engine. The track is curved going over it, and even though the radius of the curve is big, like 18' radius, the overhang of that SD40 is still way bigger than I thought. (see 4th attachment).


I've investigated what kind of power is needed to hoist a train up that hill which is around 4.5%, and it comes out to be a minimum of 4 hp/ton. I know that this measurement is somewhat irrelevant for models, but considering my roster is fixed, I can judge what locos to use for the number of cars in the train using that number. I figure about 90tons per car, so with a train of 15 cars, I'll need at least an SD40 and SD45 (6600 hp). Using this calculation makes it fun to match the roster with the train. So I ran a double header with two SD45s and 15 cars up the grade. And then I tried the same train with a single SD45, and it couldn't make it! (see 5th attachment).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1stPix.jpg (241.2 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 2ndPix.jpg (262.1 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 3rdPix.jpg (265.5 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 4thPix.jpg (245.7 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 5thPix.jpg (246.9 KB, 9 views)
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:24 PM   #20 (permalink)
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….my name is Fred Mills....
The problem is that the walls will collapse...with any moisture build up.....or even without it.. Your engineering knowledge is questionable. The ties themselves can be built into durable, attractive, retaining walls, but your methods are failing....
I'm sorry to be blunt, but I just hate to see such effort wasted when with proper planning, it could have been done so much more attractively, and much more durable, at no extra cost.
CONSULT an expert, if you don't believe me....PLEASE.
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