Accucraft C-19 Timing (D Valve - Simulated Stephenson) - myLargescale.com > Community > Forums

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Old 01-03-2011, 08:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Accucraft C-19 Timing (D Valve - Simulated Stephenson)

I was out in the garage (Between baby feedings lol), timing my newly acquired C19 because it just didn't sound right on running. Well I got it timed almost perfectly for forward, so then I checked reversed, and it wouldn't budge (wheel spun and stopped). So I tuned it back to get reverse running and forward didn't sound quite right. Very frustrating.

I made a decision, for the time being, I made forward run the smoothest I could and backwards will be for pushing.

I thought with D Valves, that once you got it timed correctly it should run forward and reverse equally because all the timing is in the valve gear.

Question:
Can someone explain to me how forward can be smooth and cause the backwards setting on the D valve gear not to work. I am hoping there is a valve gear setting somewhere so I can get forward and backward tuned to perfection!




Andrew

P.S. After tuning "forward" back to perfect, I steamed her up and she ran better then she ever has period (lots of power!, sounds great). I am pretty sure its a first run production C19 with the green boiler jacket. Serial number #007
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default RE: Accucraft C-19 Timing (D Valve - Simulated Stephenson)

Posted By afinegan on 03 Jan 2011 08:07 AM
I was out in the garage (Between baby feedings lol), timing my newly acquired C19 because it just didn't sound right on running. Well I got it timed almost perfectly for forward, so then I checked reversed, and it wouldn't budge (wheel spun and stopped). So I tuned it back to get reverse running and forward didn't sound quite right. Very frustrating.

I made a decision, for the time being, I made forward run the smoothest I could and backwards will be for pushing.

I thought with D Valves, that once you got it timed correctly it should run forward and reverse equally because all the timing is in the valve gear.

Question:
Can someone explain to me how forward can be smooth and cause the backwards setting on the D valve gear not to work. I am hoping there is a valve gear setting somewhere so I can get forward and backward tuned to perfection!




Andrew

P.S. After tuning "forward" back to perfect, I steamed her up and she ran better then she ever has period (lots of power!, sounds great). I am pretty sure its a first run production C19 with the green boiler jacket. Serial number #007

Andrew,

Congrats on the baby! (Boy or Girl?)

I forgot to warn you that the first batch of C-19s had timing screwed up at the factory, so I was told. They were recalled and re-timed, arrriving back at the end of 2009 at a big discount due to the bad rep. Email Cliff at Accucraft and ask him if he can tell you what was fixed/changed. I understand Dave Hottman fixed one or two as well.

Someone around here should know the whole story. Mine's a re-furb frm the re-issue batch, so it goes forward and backwards quite nicely.

Enjoy the baby - tt will be grown up amd gone before you notice!
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default RE: Accucraft C-19 Timing (D Valve - Simulated Stephenson)

I wonder if its just timing or something worse like the Stephenson gear in the center not angled correctly. If its pure timing, I don't mind fixing that myself. Sigh, I guess I will call cliff on this issue.

Off topic note:
Here she is :-P
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default RE: Accucraft C-19 Timing (D Valve - Simulated Stephenson)

Andrew, and your wife,
She looks beautiful, well in a young baby sort of way!
Congratulations to both of you.
Timing 'D' valves.
Yes, assuming that there is no major issue, once timed they should be equal in both directions.
However, due to the mechanical nature of the beast, that will not always be possible.
One tip, if you didn't already do it, is to put downward pressure on the valve with the tip of a screwdriver or something, while you watch it go back and forth. This will represent the downward pressure of the steam which will take up any slop in the valve linkages.
Sometimes if you do not do that the valves will not react as they do when under steam.
Enjoy and love your daughter,
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default RE: Accucraft C-19 Timing (D Valve - Simulated Stephenson)

Posted By afinegan on 03 Jan 2011 10:16 AM
I wonder if its just timing or something worse like the Stephenson gear in the center not angled correctly. If its pure timing, I don't mind fixing that myself. Sigh, I guess I will call cliff on this issue.

Off topic note:
Here she is :-P



Well now that the youngin's here (maybe a touch early?) , maybe you'll get a kitchen pass to swing over to Mississippi?

Congratulations!

As far as the loco goes, if the timing gear is like the C-16 (and I'm guessing it is) it's a "semi-stevensons" or "partial stevensons" as some people here have called it, because it only has one eccentric per cylinder. I've got my bumble bee tuned to perfection in forward but barley gets out of it's own way in reverse. It took me a long time to get right, the valve was actually too large for the distance between the steam passages causing too much lap.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default RE: Accucraft C-19 Timing (D Valve - Simulated Stephenson)

Timing these engines with the partial stevensons is always a compromise. Sometimes if you want a reverse you have to give up a little forward. On the C19 however there was another problem with the valve gear placement and linkage. I do not remember the details but Dave Hottman and Cliff know about it. Just call Cliff and see what they can do. They may have you return the engine for repairs.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default RE: Accucraft C-19 Timing (D Valve - Simulated Stephenson)

Posted By afinegan on 03 Jan 2011 08:07 AM
Question: Can someone explain to me how forward can be smooth and cause the backwards setting on the D valve gear not to work. I am hoping there is a valve gear setting somewhere so I can get forward and backward tuned to perfection!




This is the problem with "simulated" Stephenson's motion. The true Stephenson's would have separate eccentrics for tuning forward and reverse. Without seperate eccentrics you always have to deal with the lost motion in the joints and pivots making one direction act poorly if the other runs properly. It's a compromise that's a real annoyance to those of us who want the best of both worlds and hase caused me to ponder installing more eccentrics on my Ruby several times. Granted, it would mean a near-total revisit of the linkages... which is why it hasn't happened yet.

Trot, the leaky-valved, fox...
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default RE: Accucraft C-19 Timing (D Valve - Simulated Stephenson)

Andrew - If this loco was purchased before they were all fixed then Cliff will want it back to him to be fixed. There are some 18 issues in total and not each loco had every problem.

They were all one run just the ones that sold at first were repaired in CA and the ones in the warehouse were shipped back for repairs by the factory.
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default RE: Accucraft C-19 Timing (D Valve - Simulated Stephenson)

Ack, I will call him after this next Tradewinds & Atlantic Steamup. This engine is pure fun when time correctly, slow running and fast running! (lots of power).


I don't think my dad knew all the issues - and it did run for him, its just that I am a perfectionist and I want it running in pristine condition or it bugs me lol. I already worked on the suspension (little filing on the stop bar under the journal block allowed the 2 center blind drivers to contact the rail now, it is working good now).


I am going to ask cliff for that list of 18 issues hehe, I think it is an early production run, the screw holding on the front truck to the tender was crossthreaded (and still yet to be fixed, norm saley said he needed it back at his shop to fix that one at the last diamondhead).


I do have big plans for this locomotive:
1. been playing around with warm leds from a string of christmas lights I bought (I don't see a reflector in the front main headlight though).
2. A whistle (prob a weltky - I enjoy the weltky whistle on my fathers engine waay too much :-P),
3. tender axle pump (nice plug for a aster 90 degree check valved on the back of the boiler - axle pump might be fitted to the engine though - not much room with Stephenson present)
4. hot water bath (there is a nice fitting (top boiler steam blow down) for it all ready for plumbing,
5. 90 degree angle for the gas tubing (tired of the gas tubing folding directly after the gas tank in the tender, limiting gas flow) - might do peter thorntons mod of running the gas under the Cab Apron


First things first, Get the initial factory problems fixed
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