Best battery for old Sierra Sound from Soundtraxx - Page 3 - myLargescale.com > Community > Forums

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-06-2014, 02:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 3,354
Default

If you disconnect the battery and read the voltage across the leads with >9 volts going to the wheels and the system turned on, you should be seeing >7 volts on the battery leads. If not, you may have a problem.

It is certainly possible that a 9 volt battery would lead to the symptoms you described because the system would never come down to the "idle" voltage or "bell" voltage, which is just above the idle voltage.

All Sierra settings are the same with the supercaps as they are with the batteries and produce the same effects until the cap runs down.
toddalin is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-06-2014, 07:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
Super Modulator
 
Greg Elmassian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 20,416
Default

when you put caps in series, you divide down the capacity...

3 10 farad caps in series yields 3.3 farad... and you have 5.8 volts working voltage.

you need to remember ohms law and the other laws for series and parallel.

Greg
__________________
Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips & modifications, and a functional search.



Click here for Greg's web site

Note: Please. no private messaging, use regular email: [email protected]
Greg Elmassian is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-07-2014, 08:18 AM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
trainstrainstrains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Default

Here are links I found yesterday to supercaps on ebay that I hope some of you will find useful, they are to 2 sellers both located in the USA so shipping is quick and also free, prices are very reasonable.
The first 2 link are to someone who specialises in supercaps, he sells every type of supercap imaginable, including several ready made banks like the one on the link and some extremely powerful ones 20f 50, 300f at very affordable prices. He also builds banks to your design.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-CAPACI...-/121451799233
http://www.ebay.com/sch/aerobot/m.ht...1&_ipg=&_from=
This third ebay link is to someone selling lots of 12 2,7 10f supercaps for $16 including super fast free shipping. They were installed but never used. I bought a lot this morning mainly because of the speed of shipping. He has a very limited amount.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lots-of-12x-...item23451c4cef

I will try Toddalin's three 2.7 volt 10f supercaps wired in series. 150 seconds of stationary sounds seems plenty. The 9 left over supercaps I plan to use in other soundboards. I imagine they can be used on the Dallee and other sound boards?

Last edited by trainstrainstrains; 12-07-2014 at 02:10 PM.
trainstrainstrains is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 02:05 PM   #24 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Dennis Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maryville, TN
Posts: 178
Default

I am getting ready to convert an engine from DC operation to DCC control and still use the Sierra Sound system, but not use any batteries at all. I will get DC from the decoder and then build a small voltage regulator board to output 6 Vdc to keep the Sierra sound operational while the engine is not moving.
__________________
My other hobby
http://www.vimeo.com/Dennischerry
Dennis Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-07-2014, 06:48 PM   #25 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 3,354
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainstrainstrains View Post

I will try Toddalin's three 2.7 volt 10f supercaps wired in series. 150 seconds of stationary sounds seems plenty. The 9 left over supercaps I plan to use in other soundboards. I imagine they can be used on the Dallee and other sound boards?


At your own risk. When the caps first charge, the board sees this as a momentary short circuit. The Sierra voltage regulator/charger circuit is robust and tolerant of this.

The Phoenix is probably like the Sierra, but I don't know that anyone has tried this in one of those. I haven't. Who knows about the Dallee or any other unit? Any guinea pigs out there?

If trying it on a different sound board, you may want to put a 1(+) ohm resistor in series with the cap so the board doesn't see this as a short circuit after the cap drains. I tried various small value resistors with my Sierra and they just weren't necessary and actually decreased its functionality.

You can also use a resistor to charge through, and a diode to let it flow to the sound card without the added resistance, but you knock down the voltage to the sound card through the diode so it just peter's out a bit sooner. I also tried this with the Sierra, but again, it just wasn't necessary.
toddalin is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-07-2014, 11:26 PM   #26 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
trainstrainstrains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Default

Toddalin, you and others seemed so sure and pleased with the supercaps that I ordered some, now I'm not sure I'll take the risk in using them, I'm considering batteries again.

Do you mean there is absolutely no chance of harming the Sierra but other sound cards could suffer? Or are super caps also risky to use on the Sierra? Could it mean the Sierra could have a shorter life? Just how much sooner does the Sierra peter out with the resistor and diode? How exactly would one connect the resistor and diode?

Could I reduce the 9v of the battery I'm using to 6v using a diode?

I know now supercaps are a bit experimental and of course if I use them it will be my responsibility, The sierra Owners Manual does worn against the risk of using any battery except the one they recommend. But my used Sierra had a nhim installed.

Last edited by trainstrainstrains; 12-08-2014 at 07:25 AM.
trainstrainstrains is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-08-2014, 11:54 AM   #27 (permalink)
Super Modulator
 
Greg Elmassian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 20,416
Default

TTT:

To be frank, you are not experienced with electronics, and that's ok.

Often people here giving advice don't want to be part of a "meltdown" whether it's "their fault" or not. I'm certainly one of those people... No one likes to hear stories about how they "destroyed" some locomotive.

So, with your experience and knowledge level, you can definitely get into trouble with supercaps.

I would not take it personally, and experiment away.

By the way, after all this, my advice is to put a current limiting / inrush resistor with the supercaps, so as not to "stress" the charging system. I think this is a much better solution than the antique and "non smart" charging system in the sound board.

Regards, Greg
__________________
Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips & modifications, and a functional search.



Click here for Greg's web site

Note: Please. no private messaging, use regular email: [email protected]
Greg Elmassian is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-08-2014, 01:22 PM   #28 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 3,354
Default

I have two Sierras that I have done this too with the 6 Farad caps. I did a 10 Farad job for a friend. After I first did this and made it known about 3-4 years ago, others on the web have also done this. None have ever reported a failure using the Sierra.

Anyone??? Now is the time to speak (type) up!

As I said this was done in tho 6-10 Farad range. The bigger the cap, the longer the "short" so, anything bigger is also experimental.

To do a current limiting resistor, make up the supercap "pack" (3 caps in series) and just put the resistor between the either pack lead and its respective "battery" lead. I found that the Sierra would do a bit more "sputtering" before petering out with the resistor. And, it takes longer to charge, so there is a longer period of silence, and maybe a bit more sputtering before the sound will start from a discharged pack.

To do the resistor/diode you would use a 1 amp rectifier diode in parallel with the resistor. The orientation of the diode would depend on which lead it is on, but you want it arranged such that it restricts the flow into the cap, but allows flow out of the cap.
toddalin is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-08-2014, 08:14 PM   #29 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
trainstrainstrains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Default

Your experiences and the others are as good a guarantee as any, my confidence on supercaps is so recovered, I will do the simple install on the Sierra as soon as the 2.7v 10f supercaps arrive. Thanks again. About the Dallee I'll wait and see....
trainstrainstrains is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-10-2014, 02:09 PM   #30 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
trainstrainstrains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Default

I'm attaching a photo of the Dalle wiring diagram with some technical information on the bottom right (of the first installation) that I hope can help toddalin and you experts determine the appropriate supercap configuration for this card. If it looks viable I might be the guinea pig for supercaps on the Dallee.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20141210_113114.jpg (207.0 KB, 8 views)
trainstrainstrains is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the myLargescale.com > Community > Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sierra Soundtraxx Pete Thornton Sound Systems 4 10-02-2012 04:48 PM
Soundtraxx Sierra Manual StanleyAmes Sound Systems 5 09-05-2011 10:58 PM
Sierra Soundtraxx Boston Maine Mike Sound Systems 3 03-05-2011 12:48 PM
Can Sierra Soundtraxx be reprogrammed? rreiffer Sound Systems 17 06-06-2010 10:05 AM
Battery for Sierra sound Doug Bowman Sound Systems 1 03-01-2010 04:33 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:40 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.