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Old 08-22-2009, 03:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default wiring reverse loops

I have just installed a large "dogbone" loop ,using LGB #16050 turnouts with an electric #12010 style switch mach. I would like to let the train run into the loop and then "runthrough" the LGB switch coming out of the loop. I just want the train to run into and out of each loop without having to throw a switch machine or manually throwing a DPDT switch to reverse the polarity. The problem is reversing the polarity when the train is in the loop. I have tried using an Atlas "Snap Relay", but so far I have only fried it! I tried using a momentary micro switch, but the relay will not throw unless it is powered and then touching the mico switch. The train will activate the micro switch, but my problem is powering the snap relay without burning it out. Thanks in advance for any help.
Mike McILwaine
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Old 08-22-2009, 04:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default RE: wiring reverse loops

Your easiest solution would be the LGB reverse loop track set. It comes with two sections of track. Each section has its purpose. Both sections are placed inside of the loop. In your case you will need two sets. They can be had on Ebay from time to time. If you have LGB's book "The World Of LGB", it explains reverse loop[s in great detail. Even I can understand the three different ways they give to build a reverse loop for analogue layouts. If you don't have a good relationship with electronics, like me, this book will be your bible.
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Old 08-22-2009, 04:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default RE: wiring reverse loops

I would suggest you try this set up - the original comes from Maarten in the Netherlands.
You need reeds between the rails and a magnet attached underneath the loco to automate everything.

Big picture but at least you can see the electrical connections clearly

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Old 08-22-2009, 04:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default RE: wiring reverse loops

Posted By Madman on 22 Aug 2009 04:43 PM
Your easiest solution would be the LGB reverse loop track set. It comes with two sections of track. Each section has its purpose. Both sections are placed inside of the loop. In your case you will need two sets. They can be had on Ebay from time to time. If you have LGB's book "The World Of LGB", it explains reverse loop[s in great detail. Even I can understand the three different ways they give to build a reverse loop for analogue layouts. If you don't have a good relationship with electronics, like me, this book will be your bible.


That LGB track set requires that one manually reverses the direction switch on the throttle while the train is in the reverse loop.
It's very simple and effective but doesn't provide the fully automated operation requested.
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Old 08-22-2009, 04:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default RE: wiring reverse loops

It's things like this that make me think about going to DCC. A DCC system will do reverse loops automatically with no additional wire whatsoever.

Dave Bodnar has some info on reverse loops on his site:

http://www.davebodnar.com/

Also George Schreyer's fantastic site:

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips.html
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default RE: wiring reverse loops

Posted By lownote on 22 Aug 2009 04:55 PM
It's things like this that make me think about going to DCC. A DCC system will do reverse loops automatically with no additional wire whatsoever.

Sorry - that is not quite true.

With a DCC reverse loop module you still need at least four wires, granted a lot fewer than wiring the switch machines, but no "no additional wires whatsoever"
But one really only does the wiring once - so I don't ree it as such a big deal.

DCC reverse loop modules have their own problems.
Most of them depend on the wheels of the loco creating a short-circuit which then triggers the DCC reverse loop module. Depending on the way the short is detected (voltage drop or current increase) and the switching time of the module, this can cause problems over time.
A number of new DCC reverse loop modules like the Massoth one for instance, now also provide the option to use reed switches and magnets to control the reverse loop module. That eliminates the short-circuit detection problem.


What I haven't seen in Large Scale yet (although it's popular in some smaller scales) is to use a double insulated gap in the rail as the trigger mechanism. That would eliminate the need for magnets and reed switches.

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Old 08-22-2009, 05:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default RE: wiring reverse loops

This is something I came up with in dispute of the falicy that the train always has to go through the reverse loop in the same direction. This can be used with manual or electric turnouts and the trains alternate directions each time they go through the loop. The relays and power supply can be any voltage, just so they are matched. A magnet is placed under the engine. Note that while the schematic shows five 4pdt relays, only two are 4pdt and the others can be spdt.

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Old 08-22-2009, 05:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default RE: wiring reverse loops

Posted By toddalin on 22 Aug 2009 05:35 PM

This is essentually equivelent to the LGB schematic posted by KRS except that the LGB system uses the 12050/12030 as latching relays. In my schematic the 4pdt relays will "self latch" and the other relays serve to "unlatch" them. Also, using no LGB parts, this can be constructed more economically.

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Old 08-22-2009, 06:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default RE: wiring reverse loops

Todd,

2 questions: Does it really take that many relays for a common reversing loop? I'm tired, not grasping exacty what I'm seeing. And it's automatic? (For DC track).

2nd question:

Why is this screen so huge I've got to horizontal scroll like, 3 feet to see all of it? That's kinda hard, y'know?


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Old 08-22-2009, 06:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default RE: wiring reverse loops

Les,
I have a hunch that knut's diagram wasn't resized by the uploader and that widened the screen.
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