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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-15-2008 07:28 AM
david bunn
RE: Looking for protype LNER Teak info

I have enjoyed reading this thread for so many resons.
Before and after the war my late Dad worked for the LNER and during that time made many long standing friends on the railway, one of these was an assistant station master at Kings Cross and on one memorable day arranged a private visit for Dad and me around Top Shed,in the cabs of A3s,A4s,V2s,A1/2s etc.
Later in life Dad ran a pub and becames friends with the chairman of the 'Sir Nigel Gresley'preservation society which at the time was based at Carnforth. During one of our trips there on a trip pulled by Sir Nigel there was a footplate ride which meant a tight squeeze through the corridor tender, not for the agrophobic!
As a lad of course there was a lot of trainspotting, the best spot for this was at the mouth of Welwyn 'north' tunnel. The sight of the 'Elizabethian' or the 'Scotsman' headed by an A4 blasting out at full throttle with the chime whistle blowing was awesome, driver or fireman always having time for a smile and a wave.
Anyway up to date. I have a large cllection of Dads books and magazines from the 30s,40s and 50s so if there is anything specific I will try and look it up for you.
06-15-2008 07:09 AM
james brodie
RE: Looking for protype LNER Teak info

Dear Sir. All the info you need on what type of coach(British general description for passenger carrying vehicles)you wish to run on what time train from KX or Ebro or antwhere can be found in official railway publications called Carriage Working Diagrams. They give the train formation (consist) from the engine towards the rear of the train.The Flying Scotsman would be diagrammed a Pacific loco usually an A3 or A4 but any other pacific could be pressed into use or even a prairie or ten wheeler, the norm would be A3 or A4.
All the Gresley and Thompson corridor coaches had gangways at the coach ends and buckeye couplings and some A4s had buckeyes on their tenders and in early days A3s fitted with corridor tenders had buckeyes as well.
The Beaver Tails were only used on the Coronation streamlined coaches and painted to match. The Silver painted coaches on the Silver Jubilee didn't have Beaver Tails.
The Flying Scotsman sets I have are both eleven coaches long, one Thompson and one Gresley although the coaches could be mixed if a particular type wasn't available. Pullmans on the East Coast Main Line (ECML)were usually all Pullmans but in other LNER areas sometimes a Pullman would be used as a catering car mixed in with Teaks. This also happened on the Southern Railway with a Pullman in the middle of an electric unit train or as in the case of the Brighton Belle this was an all Pullman Electric Train.
I can gladly supply you with some extracts of carriage Workings if you wish just give me a time period.
Colours you could have Pre 1923 colours mixed with Teak..Teak..Teak Red/Cream..Teak Red Cream Maroon..Red Cream Maroon..Maroon Blue Cream..Blue Cream..then things went funny. Some Teaks made it into Blue Cream usually Catering Cars.
Nearly all BR trains had a guards compartment at the outer ends of the train and upto the 50s we had 1st class and 3rd class with the odd 2nd class in the London Suburban areas then to bring Europe in line with England we abolished 3rd class and it became 2nd class.
Some of the Gresley's had their drawbars modified so they could couple to non automatic couplings as mainly used on the LMS and GWR for through coach working but some areas of the LNER had screw couplings and British Standard gangways as against the Pullman Vestibule. if you want to date your layout (pike) pre 1923 the through coaches would mainly be ones or twos and later about the 30s companies ran their trains on alternate days so a train from Newcastle upon Tyne (LNER)to Plymouth (GWR) on Mon/Wed/Fri could be all Brown/Cream coloured coaches and Tues/Thur/Sat all Teak coaches, this way the costs and receipts could be split down the middle.
I know this 'cos I am a retired steam engine cleaner. Jim Brodie.
02-27-2008 07:29 AM
RE: Looking for protype LNER Teak info


I hate intermitten problems.┬* I like it when I can pinpoint a reason for a failure.┬* This is not happening with my Mallard.┬*┬*

For those of you who are unfamiliar with this system,┬* the locomotive contains the controls, throttle, cylinders and lubricator. The tender contains the boiler.┬* A high pressure hose carries steam from the boiler to the throttle/ reverser┬*header.┬* There are two electrical boxes, a transformer that plugs in to the wall and a controller that is fed from the transformer by a 4 wire heavy duty cable.┬* Two wires go to the tracks.┬* When power is switched on at the transformer box,┬* the voltage applied to the tracks is set by moving a wheel to one of 4 positions.┬*┬*The highest position is called Super Heat and is used to bring the boiler temperature up┬*quickly.┬* The lowest is not actually a setting, but kind of like another off switch.┬* There are two intermediate settings that are used when running.┬* The throttle and reverser are combined in┬*a momentary three position spring switch.┬* The center position is the normal one and springs keep it there.┬* Getting the loco to run one way or the other is accomplished by holding the switch for short periods of time against one side or the other.┬* A small servo motor in the locomotive adjusts throttle position and reverser position.┬* To stop, you must throw the switch to the opposite side and hold it there until your loco comes to a halt.┬* Of course, I am simplifying, as there are may ways to get the engine to slow down.┬*┬*

Alarms sound when:
The loco is off the track and there is no load on the electrical circuit.
Water is gone from the boiler (a sensor )

When the alarm sounds, power is also cut from the throttle control box to the track.┬*┬* I have been having an issue where the alarm sounds when the loco is sitting on the termianl (power) track with water in the boiler.┬* The voltmeter on the throttle box shows there is a load.┬*

Last night, Luke obliged after I read him some stories and rocked him to sleep (and that is way more rewarding than anything I've ever done with a train by the way!).┬* I went down to the basement and starting to tinker.┬* FIrst, I replaced the seal on the boiler water fill plug.┬* The old one didn't look too bad, but it was a little beat up, so it was probably good I replaced it.┬*┬*

Then, I tried steaming up.┬* First was super heat.┬* After 7 seconds,┬* the alarm sounded.┬* I tried a few other throttle settings and then, for an unknown reason, the alarm did not sound, and water was boiled.┬* Once we reached operating pressure, as indicated by the safety release popping a few times,┬* I slowly started running her.┬* At first, she ran a little rough.┬* Once the cylinders were warmed up and clear, she ran very well forward and backward.┬* I was able to operate her with superheat settings, and almost no throttle, but┬*I stopped after a short time because I feel this is hard on the engine.┬* She ran for about 20 mintues, and I decided to go to bed, so I backed her carefully in to her siding and shut her down.┬*┬*

No idea as to why the loco will steam some times and not others.┬*┬*

The voltmeter showed me that maybe I need to do some more track work.┬* Sitting on the terminal track, she drew 14 volts.┬* Moving down the line a little bit, she was drawing 16-17 volts.┬* No difference in throttle settings, either.┬* The loop she runs on has 3 switches, two #6's back to back with the frogs on the same side and a #4 with the frog on the opposite side.┬* It could very well be that I need to run a jumper around the switches.┬* I did burn up Atals terminal tracks when I first tried running this engine.┬* I can't imagine how many amps she pulls.┬*┬*

Any ideas welcome!! Direct combustion of coal, gas or alcohol is not an option! This is a plastic train!┬* We use only the finest Nuclear or Dirty Coal (from Brunner's Island) generated electricity for this basement railroad!! Alcohol is reserved for the driver as this railroad operates on a bar.┬* Besides, its a waste to burn good bourbon or single malt scotch.┬* I geuss I should only be allowed to consume Single Malt scotch when running the likes of Mallard...

Thanks for letting this discussion of a smaller live steamer happen here.┬* The horby live steam site is not as much fun.┬*

02-26-2008 07:52 PM
RE: Looking for protype LNER Teak info


Good luck debugging. I trust Luke cooperates and goes down quietly.

Let us know how it went tomorrow.

Kent SA# 4468
LNER Mallard
02-26-2008 05:40 PM
RE: Looking for protype LNER Teak info


I posted questions here about the OO Scale Live Steam models, so I think it should be OK.┬* I mean, really, how much smaller is it than 1/32 anyway!!! Kidding.

I'm going to try and debug her tonight once Luke goes down for the count.┬* Right now, its just intermission!! Gotta get that Mallard ready for those coaches!! Thanks for the offers of the rolling road and the terminal track.┬* I really hope its not the terminal track and its the washer.┬* That'd make me happy.┬*

Thanks !

02-26-2008 03:22 PM
RE: Looking for protype LNER Teak info


Fear not. No Mallard should be demoted to pulling US cars.┬* Nothing wrong with them, they look great behind a K4, Hudson, etc...┬* The Mallard though needs teak cars, or at least british coaches!!!

Mark, I'll go through all my cars when the last six arrive. Should be here by the end of the week. Once I know what I have, and find the nine I'm gonna designate as the "Flying Killam Consist", I'll pass on those three BR Maroon/Cream coaches and a couple others. It won't be a perfect matched set, though they all will be Hornby british coaches. I'll even add weights to them, then your Mallard will think it is pulling a full rake or 8-10. Also, I sent you an email on my roller base. If you want to use it while debugging your loco, let me know. If you also want to try my terminal track I'll send that down to try.┬*

Maybe we'll have two Mallards at DH.┬*

When the new coaches arrive, I'll post some photos.┬* I only hope the Large Scale Police down issue a warrant for posting OO cars here┬* [img]/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif[/img]


Sorry to say work was very busy today.┬* I only got about five pages into the Grantham book.┬* I'm hoping tomorrow is quieter.┬* Man, some people have nerve calling 911.┬* Don't they know I'm trying to read?┬*

Kent SA# 4468
LNER Mallard
02-26-2008 01:19 PM
RE: Looking for protype LNER Teak info


Can we end this discussion?┬* This engine called me and said the Athearn HO Scale streamlined Southern Pacific Daylight train (baggage, US RPO, coach, coach, diner, New Haven coach, dome, observation) is no longer going to be appropriate to pull.┬*┬*

Tac - your information about the Teak coaches is killing me! I almost bought that 5 car set for the Mallard last summer.┬* Never saw them in person, and have no idea where there is┬*a Hornby dealer here in the USA.┬*┬*

I am only kidding guys! The info on the LNER is excellent, and I hope to some day travel in the UK and see the railway musuem at York!┬*

02-26-2008 12:37 PM
Pete Thornton
RE: Looking for protype LNER Teak info

I don't think we'll hear from Kent for a while... He emailed to say he'd got my First Aid package (4 LNER books, including Historic Carriage Drawings and Modelling the LNER.) Should give him something to amuse himself while the 911 biz is quiet.
02-25-2008 04:57 AM
peter bunce
RE: Looking for protype LNER Teak info


IF you can find the following books┬* 'Historic Carriage Drawings' by Nick Campling (ISBN 1-899816-04-6) or LNER Coaches by Michael Harris (don't┬* know ISBN), those are all about LNER coaches. The first one also has some of the coach drawings of the previous companies that made up the LNER, the second is mainly photos, with a few darwings..

The Buffett cars were built in 1933, to dia 167.┬*┬* Buffett cars were for the non restraunt cars trains not with restraunt cars ; they were also very vried in their components and there were two triplet sets (built 1924 to 1928) for prestige trains.

Thompson coaches were all steel and painted to resemble 'teak'.┬* Full brakes (luggage/parcel vans )┬* were still (built during the war) of wood however.┬*

Pullman in┬* hte UK was a extra fare (over 1st class) train that could include some 3rd class Pullman coaches examples are the Queen Of Scots or the Yorkshire Pullman, as Tac says all pullman only

The Coronation, and the West Riding were streamline trains that were (I believe) extra fare BUT not Pullman.

The LNER used Garter Blue, Green, and silver (& in the war (generally filthy) black!)for the A4's. Then BR used blue (as the above photo) and brunswick green for them. Tte side valances over the driving wheels┬* had by now been removed- this was done during the war to ease maintainance.

There was also a set of 'Tourist' coaches in green and cream jus for info! Used for holiday traffic and special excursions.

North Norfolk Railway has some photo of LNER coaches┬* web link is as follows┬*┬*; also there are a few on the North York Moors website but not much; thast is at
02-25-2008 03:53 AM
RE: Looking for protype LNER Teak info

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